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Hi all
i just want to say the system not good after the new system for wow some ppl have loot from garson and some have from extra roll
as you see some ppl in the riad have high ilvl and some ppl are not like me you can see the ilvl in wow progress and where i am in the ilvl ranks
http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/kazzak/Icon
as you see i am still 667 with 100% Presence and we have ppl with 680
so i can be like some ppl in the guild i am try to do my best in the riad and do my max dps in the riad but the time is gonna come to be out of the riad coz of my gear
if is not happen for me is gonna be happen for someone else Later and is gonna be problem
we are team not one player in the riad we need all ppl be good on the riad and ready
and is better in the riad team to give the loot for some one who have good Presence and not die all the time
and is better to give the loot to someone who gonna have a lot of stats
Example:
we have 2 riders
rider A with Weapon ilvl 640 = 1500 int
rider B with Weapon ilvl 670 = 1800 int
and the riad kill new boss the Weapon ilvl680 = 2000 int drap
so
if A have the Weapon he will get 500 int more and the riad will get more Distribution of benefits for the riad team
if B have weapon he will get 200 int more and the riad will get more Distribution of benefits for the riad team
but
before the loot last see how much the team get benefits
now for A and B totel int is 3300
if A have it is gonna be 3800 so the riad team have 500 int more
if B have it is gonna be 3500 so the riad team have 200 int more
and i know ppl gonna say all ppl gonna have Gear ya every one but when that gonna happen ؟
i have 2 suggestions
1 - go back to the consal loot
2 - if the ppl who share the loot with me can pass the gear for me ann till i be higher the before and the riad can use me
just to let you know i know now i am number one in epgp but one pice is not gonna help me that much
thanks for you time and i have we can fix this soon
| #10655100 Feb 11, 2015 at 01:12 PM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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 Raider 412 Posts | #10654843 glmod wrote: First off all, I've quoted your last sentence because it sounds like "pass me all your loot, because I have lesser ilvl". I don't like that. I know (I hope) you don't mean it in that way. Second, council will not happen because there's no way we could keep track of who get's what and it's a lot of discussion on every drop. Wich slows us down in progress significally. Also with council we "punish" ppl who spent a lot of time in game to gear themselfs optimally for raid. For example, I spent a shitload of time to get gear, get gold to buy gear, upgrade them w/e. Sombra only comes in raid, he get's all drops because it's a bigger upgrade to him then for me. So spending gold/time and joining horrible PuG's to gear up get's punished. I would like to respond to the weapon example. Yes, it's a bigger upgrade for a person with 655 weapon then for a person with 670 weapon (if 680 drops). But the reason the person with 670 get's it is because that other person is lower on priority. That's because the other person took other loot, or b, didn't raid enough to get high on list. What will happen here (if we council together with epgp and prio bigger upgrade over priorating) is a person will take gear, he drops in list, then a weapon drops. Because he still has 655 and took other items over it, we would have to give him the weapon anyway because he still uses a shitty one. The stats on gear aren't 300 int difference, it's just minor. The RNG on missions and extra rolls isn't something we can "punish" ppl for. It's sucks, I hate it personally, because I always get vendor shit or gold on extra rolls. It's just something we have to deal with. Nevertheless, if ppl get good items, they need less items in raids, wich then goes to ppl with a lower prio. The set gear is always been discussed from what I've heard so far. Ppl are always asking before needing if ppl benefit from getting a set bonus. If you look at the epgp list, there's a big difference between top 10 and lower 10, That's because the top ten barely took loot in Highmaul. If I take myself as example, I was just unlucky, also I did shitload of trashfarm to get "free" gear (2 items), bought 3 craftables from AH and upgraded fully to 670 and bought 2 World drops. Therefor I didn't needed much from Highmaul. But nevertheless my ilvl is high, just because of that. I'm sure more ppl geared themself like that. Or joined PuG's (since you can't get saved and use an extra roll on bosses you've already killed, over and over) You get plenty of extra rolls, atleast 3 week and some with mission. If you spent them wisely you're capped on them in no time or can kill more bosses to use them on. I know for example that Prinsy joined PuG after PuG after PuG to use his rolls and hopefully get lucky. Also I always make a list, with what bosses I need gear from. If it's 2 items or more I roll extra on those bosses and I don't need on items just because they are higher ilvl while somebody else benfits more from it. Imho the epgp is a fair system to distribute loot. That being said, we are one guild and we should pass loot to ppl who needs it the most. If never hurts to ask ppl to pass, I'm sure we are mature enough to pass on some items if another person benefits more from it. |
| #10655155 Feb 11, 2015 at 01:29 PM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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Raider 178 Posts | totally agreed with Bulli. EPGP it s a fair thing, u play more u get higher score, if u dont play much and u have lower point why should u take items from ppl who has 100% attendance. Bonus roll is something we have to be grateful for. So many ppl gets loot even if Bulli don`t :) as he said, less ppl will need on items. I dont think anyone has ever said anything like your dps is not enough for the current bosses. Sometimes knowing tactics means lot more then 2-3 k dps that you would do. Nevertheless, System is good in my opinion. The raid average will be the same, U might not do 30k (for example) but some1 else will do 31. As long as the loot goes for upgrade it doesnt matter. Sooner or later we all get what we need. Simple as that. <3 |
| #10655186 Feb 11, 2015 at 01:41 PM | |
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Raider 412 Posts | If you wanna see your BiS and drop location. You could go to http://www.askmrrobot.com/ for example, load your character, click on the big green arrow and select Best in Slot. Then click on "show drop locations" and you get a nice list of bosses. You can set filters and everything. It's just an easy example of how to make a list. |
| #10655448 Feb 11, 2015 at 02:41 PM | |
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Raider 657 Posts | And one thing i haven't see any of u said. EPGP doesn't "punish" you if u are on 100% raids. Thing is you roll for an item. So you choose what u want and will get what u want(just maybe not as soon as you planed). So if u want an item (let's say a weapon) u don't roll for every single item that drops for you but roll for items u really need. As bulli said more then 1000 times now only roll for bis stuff not just oh thta xyz item is ok but yzx is bis so I'll just get xyz until i get yzx. So in the end if u are on almost all raids only thing that can "punish" you not to get loot is just poor choice on items nothing else. |
| #10655786 Feb 11, 2015 at 04:01 PM | |
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Social 402 Posts | I'm willing to pass for your 640 items gl  |
| #10656036 Feb 11, 2015 at 04:50 PM | |
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Social 67 Posts | I'm just wondering, why didn't you put in the time to upgrade your 640 items through crafting? You have tailoring as a profession so that is 2 slots covered. The trinket will cost you some gold but there are enough oppertunities to make gold in wod. I seem to recall guildies even offering help with trinket upgrades... I mean i can understand your frustrations but you also have to put in some effort yourself imo. |
| #10668559 Feb 14, 2015 at 09:15 AM | |
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Raider 412 Posts | Sooooooo....It's been a couple of days and I haven't seen much replies here. The replies I've seen say the epgp system is good. Where are all the people you talked about on TS, Glmod? |
| #10675303 Feb 16, 2015 at 01:47 AM | |
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Social 48 Posts | i agree with Glmod on this one EPGP loot system is not optimal in my opinion for many reasons the only good thing about it that it counts the attendance of the players but if you would look at it from what is also necessary to measures is the performance of the players raiders will keep attending and taking loot with out improving them self's because they know that the loot is guaranteed by just attending the raids and not doing what is suppose to be done correctly also i would hate to say that many players are loot whoring and not passing on gear for players that are going to boost the raid performance rather than increasing the player item level by one or two with little state increase that is why i would you guys to re think about loot console to improve the raid as total rather than improving an individual ,hopefully this might not cause us a problem in heroic but in mythic it will hold us back a lot not going forward .i know it is easier for officer to assign loot with this system but all of you have more than 8 years of experience to who to assign this for and that for who again re consider this for the future i know its not any time soon and needs time ,but this might cause good players to leave . the system it self is not the main reason of why us not improving but one of the factors that we could fix , people will get loot eventually but in the proper way not just because of showing up , therefore people knowing that they are being watched and they have to step up ,gear is not the only thing that will makes you a better raider but a step to achieve greater results with the skill and the experience that you a raider should have to deserve it rather than taking it the easy way . having loot all the time will makes us happy you happy but it wont give us progression because you are happy progress comes from the team work when we are strong as one . thanks for reading here is a potato :  |
| #10675351 Feb 16, 2015 at 02:07 AM | |
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Social 16 Posts | I agree to Glmod & Zatrix, The only good thing about EPGP is that it's forcing players to attend, but it will take way more time than the loot council to get best in slots for everyone, you can also force people to attend and/or perform better using loot council by giving loot priorities to the more attending and well performing players though. It's maybe hard in the beginning to make this change & sorting best in slots, but you can just ask everyone what's their main spec or the most spec they're playing with and write that in their guild notes. and then sort the BiS for that spec either using guides or asking them. there's a very useful addon for it ( http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/rclootcouncil ). and use https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1abTQSCyw7_psGtUruGwbjnKbt_wXmdDx627SdXebru4/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#gid=0 to check the best DPS increases with sets etc.. This System will improve the whole Guild's performance because we're getting the maximum average dps/healing increase with every loot drop. e.g. Sword (A) is BiS for Noobzlord, Sword (B) is BiS for Zatrix, Zatrix has 60 EP, Noobzlord has 58EP. Sword (A) drops, we both select need cuz it's an upgrade for us, Zatrix will win, gets sword (A) & +6GP, next boss drops Sword (B) , we both select need cuz it's an upgrade for us, Noobzlord will win. and that's really dumb, and we'll need to wait for another weeks to get BiS. In addition to that, everyone knows that in mythic we need every bit of extra dmg/healing increase. so why are we making this harder for us? and by the way, maybe some are happy with EPGP, cuz all they have to do is attending raids, but if we use the loot council, get more advantage, kill more bosses. this will give us more loots, so everyone will gear up faster. So the idea is that both Systems are going to gear up everyone by the time, but which System is going to give everyone the "Best in Slot" faster and make the whole guild perform better and get faster kills? and thanks for the Potato Zatrix <3 Noobzlord,, |
| #10675487 Feb 16, 2015 at 02:57 AM | |
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Social 5 Posts | I agree with Glmood, Zatrix and Noobzlord. Since they wrote pretty much everything, I want to get over something which is "who's gonna get the loot" let's say, I have 30 EP and 0 GP (surely the next item "I want" not the "I need" is gonna go to me) But let's think for a moment, how was my performance in that fight? did I dodge the unnecessary damage, pull the specific DPS for that fight, move to the right place in time, slack for the whole fight? Naaaaah, because the item is going to me for sure because I attended every raid. The other person who really needs it will not get it. Yes, EPGP is good for only checking the attendance, not the raid performance. which is good but at the same time is sad. to be honest. Please understand that i'm not pointing out to "GIVE ME LOOTZ OR I QUIT" not at all. And I'm also not pointing out to " I AM ZE BEST OF U ALL OBEY ME". No, I fucked up MANY times but at the same time learn and not do the same mistake again. but why would some one care about not fucking up if he's gonna get loot anyways? Rewarding and punishing people will motivate them to work even harder. god damn, that is one hell of a potato! Derpspree. |
| #10675868 Feb 16, 2015 at 06:07 AM | |
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Social 402 Posts | {deleted post} Prinsy wrote:pretty good example noobz, it is true. It's indeed delaying gearing to not use council loot. You can combine it easily with epgp. I know that the officers alrdy see what item is gonna be replaced, so it makes it a bit easier.#10675351 Noobzlord wrote: Lets see what other people think.... Ps. Noobz, what are the stats from weapon A and B??? /roll 100-100 |
| #10676162 Feb 16, 2015 at 08:26 AM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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Social 518 Posts | For an optimum result, you have to take care of yourself and the group. Considering loot as the result of a group effort, it's wrong to consider that you deserve loot cause of your own attendance. Thats where epgp fails. It rewards more attendance of one than the group effort. That said, you can push the reasonning to the point EPGP is helping the individual to take advantage over the group and use it for his own good. Where loot council takes care of the group first and the individual, EPGP helps only the individual who works his attendance. That said :) you brought an hell of potatoe here glmod ... [Edit] before someone asks. Loot council tier tokens and mainhand, epgp the rest. |
| #10676171 Feb 16, 2015 at 08:29 AM | |
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Social 518 Posts | |
| #10676197 Feb 16, 2015 at 08:40 AM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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Raider 412 Posts | Why am I not suprised and all post at same time. Hope you guys know what you're saying and checking the logs. You are the top in taking avoidable dmg. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DmCvWzfR2raTcBpK#boss=1690&wipes=1&view=execution "This System will improve the whole Guild's performance because we're getting the maximum average dps/healing increase with every loot drop. e.g. Sword (A) is BiS for Noobzlord, Sword (B) is BiS for Zatrix, Zatrix has 60 EP, Noobzlord has 58EP. Sword (A) drops, we both select need cuz it's an upgrade for us, Zatrix will win, gets sword (A) & +6GP, next boss drops Sword (B) , we both select need cuz it's an upgrade for us, Noobzlord will win. and that's really dumb, and we'll need to wait for another weeks to get BiS." If ppl do that, they suck. Like I said, everybody should make a BiS list and roll for that, not roll on shit just because it has higher ilvl. Do you think we won't have this problem with loot council? You can't expect us officers to know what's BiS for every class and spec, so if both of you want the same sword and we decide to give sword A to Zatrix, because it's bigger upgrade.... Then ppl aren't happy either. Also, people can send notes with the rolls. ps Prinsy, 1 time is enough and you can edit your post ;) ;) ;) (I deleted the other 2) |
| #10676321 Feb 16, 2015 at 09:23 AM | |
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Social 402 Posts | |
| #10677254 Feb 16, 2015 at 02:32 PM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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Social 16 Posts | #10676197 Bulligan wrote: that's why i linked the addon, you can save everyone's BiS by asking him which items is he after or checking the best BiS guides,, if people share the BiS, e.g. a BiS belt for me & zatrix, you can just check which guy have the worse belt or less ilvl and just give it to him. and if we have the same old belt, you can just give it to the one with less total Ilvl. So it's BiS > upgrade > upgrade (not BiS). |
| #10677347 Feb 16, 2015 at 02:53 PM | |
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Officer 1204 Posts | I don't really have time to make a full response to this but I will say a couple of things. 1. Regarding BiS - it's very nice to be best in slot, but ultimately it doesn't really help, and giving loot to BiS over upgrade is, overall, less increase on the raids performance. Additionally, if we went loot council, we would hardly ever look at BiS as a deciding factor. 2. I'm getting quite fed up of this talk about EPGP. We went to this system because people asked for it and preferred it to loot council. Now that a handful of people aren't getting an item of loot here and there they start to change their mind. 3. Regarding EPGP not rewarding people for "good play", we can make it do that by giving extra EP (or removing for bad play) but that ALWAYS creates a bad atmosphere because the people who don't get the extra points are pissed off. Anyway in summary, we're not changing it. |
| #10678014 Feb 16, 2015 at 05:27 PM · Edited over 11 years ago | |
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Social 48 Posts | thank you Hog for the final answer there is a point that you guys needed to understand much appreciated for acknowledging it ,its good that you know how your raiders feels and communicating with there officers shows the spirit of the team of whats wrong and what can be fixed it was never a dictatorship system in this guild we do our best as a team and if we come to disagreement on something then we talk about it to find a solution . As for Bulligan ! : 1- Blast is a raid wide damage that we cant avoid that is casted by the heart of the mountain it is not avoidable. 2-Hot Blooded is a raid wide damage that is casted by Foreman and it is not avoidable. 3-Bombs are when we take it from the engineers or we are forced by it and we go and cast it in the side doors some wipes we are up some we dont and some people are standing raid and explodes on us what can you do about it again blam it on us. 4-Volatile Fire and Slag Bomb i agree with you i failed on them on the first tries by not moving away from the raid and avoid slag elemental when he dies and take unnecessary damage but on the other tries it is not my fault that other people who would not move away from the raid and stays the whole fight with out knowing that this kills the members of the raid and i suffer from that and blaming me for that . 5- slag pools i go for it when we call for a wipe and the guy who uploads the logs should stop recording before start blaming players for that. 6-Burn and Lava Burst we cant do much about it when you are focused on killing the right order and being away from who is casting it therefore it is not our main priority to interrupting them while making other important calls . there was not a single time when you engage a new encounter with out failing in some mechanisms and get improved after you experiencing it . also some fat cows likes to get back door jobs from big pointy fire trains :  |
