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Guys,
So anyone who was in the raid last night probably got pretty pissed off for one reason or another, so the council are putting this post up to talk about that.

Firstly, can I make a huge thankyou to everyone who stuck it out to the end of the raid. After Malkorok, things clicked and we started enjoying ourselves. You would have noticed that at that point we didn't have to ask people to stay off Teamspeak or keep raid chat empty, in fact the discussion was adult, constructive and fun - so well done to everyone for that, it shows that we can work as a team!

Secondly, there is still a massive amount we can all do to improve, and I mean raiders AND officers. It's been a while since I was GM of a 25 man guild and I've got some re-learning to do. I'll try to take some points here for everyone to digest and try to improve.

Raid Leading
We probably sucked quite a lot at the start and we did get very frustrated when people weren't listening. For us, I think we can handle that a little better next time and I'll work on that with the officers.

Listening
This was probably what initially caused the anger. Can I ask everyone to please listen to what the leaders are saying, it's not always a fun job to lead, especially in 25man when there are so many people doing their own thing. This also applies to when the raid leader asks you to perform a specific task. Sometimes what you are asked to do sounds counter intuitive but if you can follow those orders it makes things smoother. We are a team!

Whispering Officers
This is a sticky issue. We would love to be able to answer everyone, but it's not possible. It's also very confusing to have multiple whisper conversations at the same time. You might have some really useful stuff to say but it's almost always better to either put it on this forum (boss tactics, suggestions, QQing about things) or ask for a private chat outside raid where we can devote some attention to you.

Changes I am going to make
1. First of all, I am going to allocate a specific raid leader during each raid. for all intents and purposes, during a raid, that person is God and we will all follow what they say. I think having this clarity will help.

2. When problems occur, I will try to ensure that we are not going to get pissed off but will pause the raid (not during bossfight!) and try to explain what the problem is and how we are going to deal with it.

3. We are now on a recruitment drive and pushing hard. This will help us get enough people to manage 25man raids and allow us to cover for signouts, illness and, more controversially if we bench someone. I've learned in the past that it's better to have a player doing 70% healing/DPS than a better player if that person is playing with the team and pulling in the same direction.

4. We will try to stick to 25man but there may be times where we have to drop to 10 for the whole reset (unfortunately we can't switch between sizes) For example, we have Easter coming up which means a few signouts, so I might take the opportunity to drop raid size for that week. With this in mind, can people sign up for raids as soon as possible to allow us to make this decision early.

5. I'm going to make sure everyone is using this forum, I think there may be some people not signed up yet and those who are may not be using it. I will be talking to those people.

Anyway, I'm sure there is more discussion to be had. Can you please nudge everyone to use the forum on a regular basis!

Finally, to see who is reading this, can you all post a reply to say you have read it?

Peace out!
/Hog

I guess its difficult to push recruitment hard and not end up with too many ppl that needs to be geared etc, so I repeat what I said in the shoutbox. I think we should be on the lookout for a 10 man guild to merge into Icon. I'm sure our situation is not unique.

/Z

thank you for this post hog , agree with zaggy

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BTW guys, I know I've been a bit slack lately, combination of personal stuff & work stuff. Sorry about that but it's really outwith my control.
Should be back to raiding reliably Mon & Wed now (although I may have some work trips in future, I got promoted)

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and to Eddio gratz on the promoting ( or hoe you typ that). ;)

Indeed, grats on the promotion Edd!

And Zaggy, it's a possibility I've been considering but may cause some serious issues. For the Murloc/Millhouse integration we spent a LONG time getting to know each other before we tried out 25man. To blindly insert another 10-15 people would be really difficult at this stage. I'm not discounting the option, but we would need to be very, very careful about choosing which guild to allow to join us. If anyone comes across one, please let me know and the officers in both guilds will chat.

Another related solution may be to go with a guild cooperation instead of a merge. That way we just need to define the loot rules, raid leader and we're good to go. This could be the best way as it means we could end up with some of that team wanting to transfer permanently - though I would NOT allow us to poach or suggest that to external people. Ideally, the best type of guild to try this with is one that has gotten close to our progress but is struggling to raid due to lack of people. Keep an eye out for that!

I read it :) sounds tbh good what u are saying here Hog even I was not there I know how difficult can be leading 24 other man without used to each other or acknowledge the other team, yet im sure u ll sort it out soon and gonna smash those bosses.
I always check the forum, if u are sort 1 man and u think u can use me, u can always count on me, as long im not at work :P

Good luck guys x

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ps Gratz Edd

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same from me gratz Eddy:))

Well written!

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